Tuesday, March 15, 2016

Meeting Bradbury's Characters: March 15, 2016

Focus: What do we think about Bradbury's human and non-human characters?

1. Warming up with circles of enlightenment: Montag, Clarisse, Mildred,the machines and operator who save Mildred, the typical fireman, the Hound



2. Reviewing fishbowl expectations and diving in

3. Wrapping up with takeaways/questions: So far, what patterns are you noticing in Bradbury's characters?

HW:
1. Read through page 40 in F451 for Thursday and prepare for fishbowl discussion; continue your reading reflections. If you're handwriting, make sure you're bringing it to class.

2. If you're giving your speech this Friday, March 18, you should be working on it tonight and every night this week.

182 comments:

  1. If Mildred represents her community,then what does that say about the community?

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  2. Why do the firemen start fires rather than extinguish fires?


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  3. Why are the people so depressed if they live such affluent lives?

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  4. Why does this futuristic world incorporate such horrifying machinery like the hound in the fire station?

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  5. Why does it seem like Clarisse plays such a large role in Montag's life?

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    1. She might expose him to thoughts or ideas that open his mind to think about things that he normaly wouldn't think about.

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    2. Clarisse plays such a large role in Montag's life because it seems like Montag hadn't met anyone like Clarisse before, and Clarisse helps him understand what there is in life, other than burning things. She gives him a new perspective.

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    3. I think because he shares the same similarities as her. Being outgoing and nature loving, and how she opens Montag's eyes to the real picture in life.

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  6. What does the future hold for Montag and Clarisse?

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  7. Why does Mildred disconnect from the world?

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    1. She is so consumed with technology that she has lost her emotion of love and other emotions.

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  8. What will Montag and Clarisse's relationship be in the future?

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    1. I think that they will grow closer as time goes on because it was a new experience for Montag to have a personal conversation.

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    2. I think Montag will start to spend more time with Clarisse and start to learn more about life and the world in ways that he never understood before

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  9. Why did Mildred try to commit suicide?

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    1. Mildred and a lot of people in this new society probably live very sad, pointless lives. Mildred probably lives an unsatisfying life at home 24/7, which could lead her to do some crazy things.

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  10. I think the government maybe persuade people to change there way of thinking over the years.

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    1. How would the government do that. How did no one stand up to the government

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    2. I agree with Riley, how would there be no protestors to stand up for what they believe in?

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  11. Why is it so common for people to be depressed in this life?

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    1. I think people are depressed because they are afraid and lonely and do not know how to find true happiness in their lives.

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    2. I agree with Henry. To add on, I think that some people are depressed to because they cannot find true love as well. Montag and Clarisse share something good, that they both open eachother up to the world.

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    3. I disagree with Andre because Clarisse is only 17 and Montag is probably like 60 and that's really weird so it shouldn't be true love

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  12. Is it possible that Mildred didn't end up taking all the pills herself? What could've happened? Or is she ashamed and trying to forget about it all?

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  13. Response to Graham Shultz: This book is most likely taking place in a Cold War scenario and the reason they start fires is to hide the facts they don't know about. For example, the number 451 is the degrees in Fahrenheit required to burn paper and books.

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  14. Is the burning of books used to keep the populace under the government's reign?

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    1. The government doesn't want people to be educated enough to understand what's going on. Basically they crave a society where everyone is their clones and will do what they say no questions asked.

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    2. The government doesn't want people to be educated enough to understand what's going on. Basically they crave a society where everyone is their clones and will do what they say no questions asked.

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  15. What was leading up to Mildred overdosing on sleeping pills? What has happened that has made her do this twice before, and yet continues to deny what she did even the morning after getting her stomach pumped.

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    1. I think she might deny that it had happened because she is ashamed for trying to tkae her own life

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    2. I think she is just so invested in technology that has gone a little bit crazy

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    3. Maybe she needs to be saved by Montag because it shows her that he still cares for her. Maybe she actually cant remember because of the way they save her. Or the pills destroy her brain in certain ways.

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  16. If everyone is so scared of the firemen, what made Clarisse decide to talk to Montag?

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    1. Maybe Clarisse decided to be brave, but why? She obviously thought firemen were dangerous.

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    2. She probably realized how society was turning out based on the depression and suicide, and she either wanted to find out why or change it.

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    3. What if it wasn't her choice? She's obviously pretty mysterious, and almost like a ghost. Maybe there's more to her than we think.

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    4. I think she started to talk to him because she ran into him while she was walking at night and she's just interested into him and he is too.

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  17. Why is the Hound hostile to Montag but not the other firemen?

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    1. Maybe the hound is trying to show the other firemen something they are not seeing

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  18. After reading the section on the Hound, I believe that the Hound represents society and what Montag is afraid of in it. When the Hound senses something that is normal and not out-of-the-box, it does not act strangely. But when the Hound senses something that it is unfamiliar with, like the scene with Montag, then it lashes out and kills.

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  19. "We'll have the hound checked by our technicians tomorrow" this is what Montag said after the hound has been growling at him. I wonder if this hound has developed some kind of sense, and maybe does not recognize Montag due to a change in his actions/emotions.

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    1. In a society as tech-forward as this one, this idea is definitely not far off. The dog has been trained to work for the firefighters, which could entail a lot of training on emotions.

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  20. "The jet bombers going over, going over, going over, one two, one two, one two, six of them, nine of them, twelve of them, one and one and one and another and another and another, did all the screaming for him" This quote from page 11 is unclear. What do you think the significance of this quote and the sudden appearance of the jet bombers is?

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  21. How has Montag been doing his job for Ten years and not noticed until now how unhappy he is? Wouldn't he start to question why he does his job after so long?

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    1. I feel he had fallen into a routine that provide a "normal" life for him, having a wife helped too. However Clarrise has opened up his view from living life brain washed in a way. I feel Clarrise brings a view just like the books being burned a different view on life and society.

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    2. He's probably so caught up in what he's doing. It's become normal for him to be unhappy, and he doesn't realize this until someone shows him.

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  22. In response to Korbin: I think he is becoming dissatisfied with his life for many reasons. First, he finds Clarisse and finds out how extraordinary life can be when it is not in routine. Also, he has a wife who possibly tried to commit suicide, and is in complete denial of it. His life is changing rapidly and he is not a fan of it. Before he enjoyed his routine life, starting fires, and coming home to his normal wife. Now he found that life is not all about routine, and his wife is changing on him

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  23. Mildred has been consumed by technology and for her it provides a second life from her own. I wonder if Mildred and Montags "love" has been lost, or has been changed due to the current society.

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    1. I think it also could have been lost because Montag met Clarisse

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    2. I think it also could have been lost because Montag met Clarisse

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    3. Mildred doesn't understand Montags and I don't think she has a desire to do so, that being said I think their love has been lost.

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    4. I think with how Mildred is, it probably is lost. She's not the same as she once was and that has had to of made it hard on Montags.

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    5. I think People have started to become "Numb" to the true emotions of life and have learned to live life with no expression or feeling

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  24. I think that the firemen in this futuristic society start fires instead of put them out for a few reasons. First i think that the society itself has changed, not just the firemen. They have probably moved away from the past and individual imprints on life. They want to suppress the exchange of knowledge around the world, that explains why Clarisse didn't know the past of putting out fires. This book was written during the time of the Red Scare so this is the way of the author retaliating against the government. Bradbury was showing that unless things changed, society would fall down a path of burning and suppression not knowledge and expansion. Other aspects of society have also changed, such as the typical family and social life. Montag has a wife, but I don't think its from love. It seems as though he stays with her because he's forced to, they show no affection for each other. But Clarisse and her family seem to be the exception, they have conversations, question things, and enjoy life, not just go through the motions. It is as though there is nothing left to live for.

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  25. Why are suicides so common in this dystopian future? What causes so many people to want to kill themselves so often that special machines need to be developed?

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    1. I think that suicides are such a large part in this futuristic society beacause there is nothing in life that anyone enjoys. Knowledge is burned and bomber planes keep people in line. The government has turned towards a totalitarian dictatorship where no one is allowed to step out of line.. or just choose not to. They find that the only way out of the cycle is to kill themselves.

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    2. I agree that machines needed to be developed to help prevent this suicide. I think there is some for shadowing in what the burning books and the fireman represent with the amount of suicides.

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  26. Do you think that Clarisse is actually 17? How does she know so much if she is so young?

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    1. I don't think she's that smart. It seems like everyone else is less smart, or even brainwashed, which makes her seem smarter.

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    2. She must have read some of the banned books. If everything else in this society is censored. Books cannot get rid of other than physically destroying them, while TV they just do not air something or talk about it.

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  27. Answering Grahams question I think the restrictions that thay have on them is so great they can bear not having any freedom.

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  28. Why is Montag different than the other firefighters? I sounds like the others are all programmed jerks who keep to themselves and don't have real conversations. The same goes for Clarisse, why would she be so comfortable approaching a firefighter if she knows that they are mostly jerks?

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    1. Maybe she's been observing him for awhile and can see that he isn't like the others. After all, Montag has felt someone or something around that corner for awhile now.

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    2. Montag is probably different because someone approached him. Since most firemen don't make conversation, nobody talks to them. When Clarrise finally talks to Montag, he responds, which shows that the firemen might not necessarily be antisocial jerks, but they don't talk because nobody talks to them to begin with.

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    3. I think Clarisse was intending to talk to Montag. I think she was waiting for his that night and wanted to talk to him. I also think that after Montag met Clarisse, he started to become more curious.

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  29. Why does the government not really teach or allow people to know about past society's?

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    1. I think it allows them to have more power and the people dont rebel like they use to.

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    2. I think it is just another way for the government to have control. This book was written as a commentary on the controlling government at the time, so it is showing what might happen if the government keeps controlling and banning books and such, kind of like a worst case scenario.

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    3. When people are uncertain they tend to not do much because they are scared of what could happen. Maybe its an attempt to protect everyone or the officials in the government from some secrets.

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    4. Perhaps it is because they needed people to stop questioning their authority and they grew corrupt overtime but wanted to stop people from going against them by changing laws and covering up the past so future generations will assume it was always like that.

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  30. In response to Graham: I think the people in this society are so unhappy because this is a communistic sort of nation. Everyone has to follow all of these rules, and are completely censored from the world. They could've heard what the old world was like, and how this world is horrible compared to before.

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  31. "He stood looking up at the ventilator grille in the hall and suddenly remembered that something lay hidden behind the grille, something that seemed to peer down at him now. He moved his eyes quickly away". Bradbury decides to add this one paragraph representing something in the grille but doesn't continue to say WHAT he was looking at. Why do you think Bradbury did this? What do you think Montag was looking at?

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  32. People generally asked questions that led to bigger pictures and there were no yes or no questions.

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  33. The outer circle went well because when I posted a question multiple people would answer.

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  34. One thing that went well today was how the inner circle connected because they are all friends. They were all on the same page together and it flowed very well.

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  35. There wasn't any times on the inner circle where there was a lack of conversation

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  36. I think the fishbowl was lit and went well.

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  37. I think that I did a decent job of blog posting, however I still feel like I can improve on the amount of posts, as well as replying to other posts.

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  38. The outer circle went well since people were constantly responding and posting questions.

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  39. The conversation was intense and no awkward silence was in the building.

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  40. We had a lot of great discussions.

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  41. I think we had not only a lot of questions asked, but a lot of responses to a lot of those questions. You could ask a question and actually expect a response.

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  42. I like how they started talking about the salamander and what it really means on their uniforms.

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  43. Why doesn't Mildred remember trying to kill herself? Why does she keep denying it?

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  44. Clarisse: Why Does she question the norm?

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    1. I think she questions the norm because she is very curious about life before she was alive. A lot of the people in the society consider to be crazy or mentally insane for questioning reality

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  45. Although it's just a robot, can it sense that Montag is gradually changing through time ever since his approach with Clarisse?

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  46. Montag: What caused him to stop asking questions?

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  47. Did clarisse have something to do with Mildred's attempted suicide?

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    1. No, I don't think she was connected with Mildred's suicide because Clarisse wasn't involved in anything like that. Though I think later on they will eventually encounter each other.

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    2. i don't think Clarisse had anything to do with Mildred's suicide. I think both of them shared the same ideas about the world and saw what was wrong with it and Mildred wanted out of the world she was in.

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  48. What makes Mildred so selfish? Why doesn't she consider Montag as well as herself.

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  49. Replies
    1. Montag has been doing the same thing for years, and he has only just started to question things. I think he is pondering his life and purpose in the world.

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    2. I think he thinks he's happy, but later on he will realize he is not that satisfied with his life. I think only the audience knows he's not truly happy, but he himself isn't aware of that yet.

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    3. I think Montag is unhappy because he is unable to express himself and be an individual. In his society everything is censored and controlled and I think that deep down Montag doesn't want everything to be like that.

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    4. Montag isn't happy because Clarisse helped him reactivate that questioning part of his personality and he is questioning his job, why he married his wife, and other things. Basically Montag is beginning to have a bit of an existential crisis but it's not fully that since he is mainly questioning the purpose of his job or the habits of society but sometimes he thinks about his happiness and purpose in life.

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    5. I think that he thinks that he is happy but in the inside he is caring a lot guilt with him.

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  50. Why do you think the book was titled "Fahrenheit 451?" What is the significance?

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    1. 451 degrees Fahrenheit is temperature at which books burn

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    2. That is the temperature that paper burns at.

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  51. Why doesn't Clarisse know a lot about the society she lives in? Does the society try to keep people from learning about the past?

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    1. I think that the society does try to keep people from learning about the past, and/or hiding it with lies.

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  52. Why do you think firemen are burning books for a living?

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    1. They're most likely trying to control the knowledge that is available to the public. It is much easier to control the population when you first control what they know, and rewrite history.

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    2. This seems to be a dystopian future where America becomes an oppressive state.

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  53. "He felt his body divide into hotness and coldness... the two halves grinding one upon the other." (p24) There is an internal battle going on. What happened in Montag's past? Why are there two opposite sides of him?

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    1. maybe he used to be a firefighter and now he's conflicted because he is now starting fires

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  54. Has Montag already started to make a shift?

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    1. Yes, I think he already has. Although he tries not to believe it, ever since he met Clarisse he's been trying new things like sticking his head back to taste the rain. It's something out of the norm and I think at that point, he began to change.

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  55. why do they set book on fire instead of actually putting out fires? who puts out the fires then?

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    1. From what I infer there is no need to have someone to put out any fires if all the fires are being created on purpose.

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  56. Do you feel as if she was too happy for the society and that is why she tried to kill herself? Or is she just mentally ill?

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    1. I don't think that we know enough about her because for most of the reading she was asleep. For me I believe that she is mentally ill, but we will see soon.

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    2. I agree with Noah, we don't know enough about the character. But, I feel like she actually was unsatisfied with how society was going and that's why she chose to end her life.

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  57. I think that Clarisse may of had something to do with Mildreds suicide. Maybe Mildred wasn't actually trying to kill herself but instead was drugged.

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  58. What do people do after the firemen burn the houses down?

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    1. You'll see in the next reading assignment (mwa ha ha ha).

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  59. Does burning the books actually make the world a better place?

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    1. Probably in their perspective, yes. However, I don't think they realize they are actually burning knowledge to ashes.

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    2. I don't think that they are trying to make the world a better place. I think they are just doing what's "normal" to them at this point and in their mind what needs to happen.

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  60. Why do you think that mildred wants a 4th wall? What does that mean?

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    1. Can one of you guys explain what you think the parlor walls are like?

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  61. Do you think this could happen in real life? In the future? There are a lot of banned books today so could it happen that they ban all books?

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  62. "Are you happy?" she said.
    why ask him that? Was it to make him think? did she know? Is he happy? Where was she going with that question? Why ask the question? Why does she care?

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    1. Clarisse seems like a light in Montag's darkness. She may be the one to take him out of the rut that he is presently in, and the one who shows him that there is better.

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    2. "Clarisse" = "Bright; shining and gentle"

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  63. If people don't like the burning of the books, then why do they do it? :)

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    1. It is hard to go against a society that has complete control over everyone. There just aren't enough people willing to stick up for themselves.

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    2. Since this is during the Cold War, I think that they do it because it is the way to fit in in the times. That was a time where everybody had to be the same and if you weren't then you would be accused as a communist which was one of the worst things.

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  64. What did Clarisse have to do with Mildreds attempted suicide? Could she have been the reason?

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    1. No, I don't think they're connected in anyway shape or form because I don't think Mildred is even aware Clarisse exists yet.

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    2. I agree that Mildred likely doesn't know of Clarisse's existence (she seems largely unaware of everything), but I do think Bradbury has set them up as foils.

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  65. Zella was talking about the future and how we could relate to the book, how can we prevent this?

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    1. This book portrays the future as being a place where people are more controlled and that daily things we do have been taken away. So to prevent this we have to keep out freedom.

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  66. Why do fireman think it's right to burn books? Or is that all they have ever knew?

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    1. I think that they are doing it because that is what their job is and if they don't do that then they can't provide for their families. Even if they don't think that it is the right then to do, then they will do whatever for survival.

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    2. Its been the normal for so long

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    3. I think they're doing it because they don't realize what they're doing. In my perspective, they are do as their told as long as they get compensation for it. I don't think they slow down to realize that what they're doing is wrong. I think that they just do their job and that's it.

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    4. I think that they are doing it because they can. But also they might feel that reading is not good for kids and they should be working.

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  67. Censorship. Why censor things? Why control what people read? If we censored everything no one would know how to make a bigger better change to the society. Why would they censor something. Its peoples choices to think and read and say whatever they want.

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    1. Because too people think that because they take offense to something, they shouldn't have to see it ever again

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  68. The morning after Mildred tries to kill herself she wakes up very hungry.. "Feel like I've a hangover. God I'm hungry" (19). Do you think the hunger symbolizes anything? What would it symbolize and how is this symbol significant?

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    1. Mildred has been given a second chance. Her physical hunger may just be a side effect, but it may also symbolize a hunger to make her life better.

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    2. I think she is hungry for affection from Guy. It seems as though he is always at work.

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  69. Why is Montag unhappy?
    What causes Clarisse to ask Montag so many questions?
    What happened to traditional firefighters?
    Who puts out fires then?

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  70. clarisse knows more than she lets on. There is some reason she came to guy specifically

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  71. Clarisse's uncle says, "This is the age of the disposable tissue. Blow your nose on a person, wad them, flush them away, reach for another." Is this nonsense or is it meaningful?

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    1. I think it holds significance. I kinda took it as that the society was burning the books at a rapid pace, meaning there won't be a lot of knowledge being passed around without the books. So, grab a book, read it from cover to cover, set it down and reach for another one. Basically, just get all the knowledge you can get.

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    2. I feel like this really goes along with a pattern of less feeling in this society. It seems as though it's a fearful yet fearless society and I think that this is a way of saying to just let it go.

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  72. Why do you think Mildred doesn't remember committing suicide? Is she pretending she forgot or does she really not remember?

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    1. I think she is pretending because she knows that she is better than that and that she was just giving up. She does not want to talk about why she did it to Guy or anyone else.

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    2. I think she was pretending but she may not be better and just wants to hide it because she doesn't want help.

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    3. I think that is trying to make herself that it is better for her because she is not proud of trying to commit suicide and she doesn't want anybody knows because she doesn't want the help that she needs or anything.

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  73. Why do you think people can get so depressed when they live such wealthy lives?

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    1. Because wealth doesn't determine happiness.

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    2. There is much more to life than just money. You could have billions of dollars and yet none of it could mean a thing.

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    3. I think that for the most part it's because they don't have anyone close as a person around them and they struggle to be happy alone.

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    4. What's sad to me is how unaware they are of their unhappiness. They're numb and robotic. Happiness does not equal the absence of unhappiness.

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    5. I think that it's because they can't fit in any way because they are so wealthy.

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  74. Some questions I had were: Why are books illegal? I thought about this and came up with a few things such as books became more and more violence and children looked to the characters as role models thus becoming violent or having bad idea. Or maybe they just didn't want people to question the government or try to fight them. Another question I had was why would they burn the houses of the book owners? Were they too tired or lazy to take the books outside and keeping people safe? Was it their time's way of controlling overpopulation? Was it because sometimes the fireman themselves would sneak a book home?
    Why did Montag stop asking questions? What happened to him in his past to cause him to stop questioning things? Who made him learn to stop questioning things? Parents? Neighbors? Police? School?
    Do they still have history classes to teach others about life in the past since they don't know about Firefighters? Do they still have school in Bradbury's image of the future? How did Clarisse know? "They walked still farther and the girl said, 'Is it true that long ago firemen put fires out instead of going to start them?'" (8)
    What are their houses made of if it's fireproof? "'No. Houses have always been fireproof, take my word for it.'" (8)
    Why did his wife forget about overdosing?

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  75. Would "getting rid of" the past and burning books improve anything? Or would it only make things worse?

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  76. In my opinion, I think we have so many more problems to think about, and work with than the banning of books?

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    1. I agree with you but I think that they assume all this knowledge that creates these problems is because of books. And so they're attempting to destroy the root of where the issues are birthed.

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    2. I agree that burning books isn't a very large problem. I think that burning books has created an even larger problem and could of just been left alone.

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    3. I feel that authors should be able write what they want and put there feeling out there and not get judged for the opions that you make

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  77. "He stood lookng up at the ventilator grille in the hall and suddenly remembered that something lay behind the grille,something that seemed to peer down at him now."
    What is he hiding? What secrets does he keep? Why is it hidden? Is it the reason why he likes Clarisse so much?

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    1. Hmm...what might be hidden in that ventilator grille? How does it connect to Montag's unhappiness?

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  78. How did the banning of all books start? When did it start?

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    1. That's a really good question. Was it a certain event? A specific book?

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    2. I feel that people ban books because they don't believe that they can have beliefs that they don't agree with so they are banning them because of that.

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  79. I keep seeing the word moonlight appear in the book, what do you think that the theme is of that word?

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    1. In The Kite Runner it represents hope, so it could possibly resemble the same thing in this book.

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    2. I think it's a a symbol for a dark society with little light. Only certain people really see and pay attention to it.

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    3. I think the idea of moonlight represents a small amount of light surrounded by darkness. An example of this would be Clarisse, someone who is surrounded by one idea, yet thinks differently.

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  80. "Montag was cut in half. He felt his chest chopped down and split apart." Do you think Montag feels at fault for his wife's actions?

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  81. What role does internet play in this society?

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  82. Why do you think someone would make the hound attack Montag? Or do you think that it was just an accident? (23)

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  83. (No computer day of fishbowl)
    Do you think that they should do what they do with books (burning the books, not houses.) in todays society?
    You would think in the future we would be more free, why would they be burning all books?
    When they burn peoples houses, what do they expect them to do after?
    If people knew they burned your house for books, why do people continue to get those books?
    Does Montag get off by burning or just peoples houses? "Montag grinned the fierce grin of all men singed and driven book by flame." pg 4
    What does Ray think now? When he wrote the book so long ago, nothing was the way he thought it was.

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  84. After reading pages 28-40 in Farenheit 451, I found a few examples of symbolism. The first example of symbolism is in the mechanical hound. What do you think the hound represents and why has it suddenly turned on Montag? Do you think it is because he has started expanding his thinking and talking to Clarisse? Also, the bomber planes seem to symbolize something. From the text, I have concluded that they are on the brink of war but what do the planes symbolize?

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