Tuesday, October 13, 2015

Are We Growing Yet? October 13, 2015

Focus: How does Amir cross the threshold, and how does it change him?

1. Warming up by handing back your final draft feedback, comparing it your pre-assessment, and charting/reflecting on your growth thus far

2. Reviewing some fishbowl changes

Fishbowl #6: Chapters 21, 22, and 23 will be moved to Tuesday, October 20

Fishbowl #7: Chapter 24-end will be moved to Thursday, October 22

Benefits of these changes include getting more time to read, as the upcoming chapters are highly significant, not having to fishbowl two days in a row, not having to fishbowl on the day of the PSAT, and improving the quality of the discussions.


3. Fishbowl, Interrupted: The Kite Runner, Chapters 19 and 20

4. Taking 10-15 minutes to enter Chapter 21 together with a focus on crossing the threshold

HW:
1. Prepare for Fishbowl #6 on Chapters 21, 22, and 23, which will now take place on Tuesday, October 20.

2. Bring your annotations/journals to class tomorrow for reading conferences, as well as your independent reading book.

3. Parents: Hopefully, your child gave you the letter I sent home last week regarding conferences. Because I am a part-time teacher, I will only be at parent-teacher conferences on Wednesday night. If this is inconvenient for you, please contact me at kleclaire@lps.k12.co.us to set up a different time.

132 comments:

  1. Why do you think the Taliban treated the citizens of Afghanistan so terribly?

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    1. They are bad people and I think power has corrupted them when they took over.

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    2. Even if they are bad people, wouldn't they want to keep the citizens happy because they are taking advantage of their land?

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    3. I agree, they are terrible people and have taken power and turned it into something terrible. They treat people so bad to maintain that power and make sure everyone is afraid of them and obeys them.

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    4. They live in a corrupt environment and saw the opportunity to take over.

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    5. I agree with Brandon and Preston. The Taliban dominate everything through aggression and power

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    6. Also, in an article that I read, it stated that the Taliban would find any excuse to harm the Hazaras and even though the Hazara population was small, the talibans hated them and it became legal to drag one out of his/her house and kill them in the street

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  3. The Taliban is an Islamic group that only cares about themselves, and have their own goals that they want to accomplish. They have thrived to the top in Afghanistan, and anyone who stands in their way, they will hurt or sometimes kill.

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  4. At the end of chapter 18 it says "I planted a fistful of money under a mattress". Why do you think he would do this?

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    1. He felt bad for that family because they were hungry and didn't have enough to support their family. After they were so nice to him that was the least he could do to repay them.

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    2. Because earlier he ruined hassans life and forced him to move away but now he wants to see struggling afghan children strive and get away from this awful place.

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  5. On page 246 Amie says, "Returning to Kabul was like running into an old, forgotten friend and seeing that life hadn't been good to him, that he'd become homeless and destitute." What had changed more, Amir or Kabul, since he was last there?

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    1. I think the two have change equally, as the country fell apart, Amir fell apart with it because he had to leave and start new in America. The American culture has changed Amir for sure, but both Amir and Kabul have changed drastically

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    2. I believe both changed for example: Amir, became more mature and he actully realized what is good and now that he knows hassan is his son he wants to do good for him and other. But, Kabul also changed such as the Taliban are always lurking now around the town and it is a lot more dangerous about what people do.

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  6. What is keeping some of these terrified people from doing what Amir and his father did years earlier and just fleeing the country for something better?

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    1. I think it's mostly because of poverty. The only reason Amir and Baba were able to escape was because they were very rich compared to the other citizens in Afghanistan. The other people need to stay in Afghanistan because Kabul is all they have.

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    2. It is most likely fairly expensive to flee the country and many people still consider Afghanistan their home so they don't want to leave and start over again.

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    3. I think they don't have enough money and they are scared. Its a completely different situation than amir and baba did.

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    4. I agree with Graham because starting a new life is hard especially for the people in Kabul. Money will most definitely be an issue, and I think that some people are just sacred of moving, and the thought of starting a new life with a new things.

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    5. I agree with what Graham said, it requires a lot of money to be able to just get up and leave the country. They wouldn't have a house or furniture or even many clothes wherever they went. Moving would be hard just because it requires so much work and money that people aren't able to do it.

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  7. Amir talked a lot about fear. About he was afraid of how America would make him look. I related this to the dream that he had in the past about the monster in the lake. Then I related this to the subject we talked about yesterday. Is fear the monster-guard in the lake, or telling what happened to Hassan as a kid?

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  8. While Amir is talking to Farid, Farid points at a man carrying a sack filled with scrub grass wearing rugged and torn clothes saying, “That’s the real Afghanistan, Agha sahib. That’s the Afghanistan I know. You? You’ve always been a tourist here, you just didn’t know it.”(Page 232). What do you think Farid meant when he said this? How is Amir a tourist in the country where he grew up in?

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    1. Amir never had to live that kind of lifestyle when he was in Afghanistan.

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    2. I think he means real Afghanistan is a poor, hard working country with no breaks. Farid is saying that Amir has always lived a rich lifestyle and has never experienced the real Afghan lifestyle, hes always just been a tourist and watched it from afar

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    3. Although he did experience terrible things, he never went through the think of the war, and he never reached adult hood within the culture of his country.

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    4. Amir was aware that he was rich, but he was never really aware of what it was like to be poor, and the "Afghanistan Man' is impoverished and hungry.

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  9. On page 239 Amir says, "Don't worry. You were more right than you know." Does Amir agree with the other Afghanistan people when they accused him of being a coward?

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    1. In a way yes, he hasn't forgiven himself for the things that he did to Hassan. He was a coward and he still thinks of himself as one at times.

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  10. "Earlier that morning, when I was certain no one was looking, I did something I had done twenty-six years earlier: I planted a fistful of crumpled money under a mattress"(Hosseini pg. 242). Do you think this is an example of 'the past clawing it's way out', and saying that he will never forget about what he did, or is it more like 'there is a way to be good again'?

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    1. I definitely think that this is a good theory, but I don't think that we can ever figure out what he meant completely when he put the money there. He also might have done this because he feels bad for the country and how he is a lot safer and richer in America.

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  11. I think Farid is in most ways right because of the way Amir grew up. He was really never exposed to the poverty and war until he left. Now when he comes back he is sees all the problems that existed in Afghanistan.

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    1. I agree, I think Amir is surprised about what he see's because he was always rich when he was in Kabul and now seeing how the town is from a different perspective made him feel bad

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  12. On page 240, it says, "I follow the barrel on its upward arc. I see the face behind the plume of smoke swirling from the muzzle. I am the man in the herringbone vest." What do you think he means by that?

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    1. Amir still blames himself for what happened to Hassan. Inadvertently Amir's actions transpired to the death of his half-brother.

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    2. This dream Amir has resembles Amir's guilt with Hassan so the dream represents Amir shooting Hassan in the street.

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    3. All of the guilt amir has transpires to this dream when Amir is the man killing Hassan

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    4. Its his dream of shooting Hassan, it shows how much guilt Amir is feeling about what happened to Hassan

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  13. Amir was talking about when Baba was arguing with the soldier that was drunk,"Baba had made me so mad the night, so scared, and ultimately, so proud," (243). Is this how Baba felt about Amir until Amir won the tournament?

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  14. What do you guys think was the threshold Amir passed through?

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    1. The threshold would have to be seeing his old city and how different it is. He changed his thoughts and opinions on everything when he saw his country torn up from the war.

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    2. I think that the threshold for Amir was when he saw Hassan in the alleyway. Just think about it, before the incident Hassan and Amir were getting along just fine, but that point were Amir saw Hassan changed everything.

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  15. going back to previous events, do you think that if Amir was to get abused instead of Hassan, do you think that Hassan would be able to forgive Amir? Is Amir not able to forgive him because it is just a characteristic about him, or is it something else?

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    1. I think Hassan in most ways has forgiven Amir, it is just Amir's characteristics that drive Amir to do all these things to forgive himself.

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  16. Answering Jackson's question, I think that he will forget and tell her what has happened in his past. In my opinion, Amir has matured into a great man now, and now he will forget his past and never go back to that person that he was when he was a kid.

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  17. When Amir finds Sohrab, will Amir change Sohrab or will Sohrab change Amir?

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    1. I think that Sohrab will change Amir. Amir is a better man and person now, and I think that Amir will be the role model that Sohrab needs.

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    2. I think Sohrab will change Amir because he is half brothers with the father of the child and they experienced so much together as best friends

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    3. I think Amir will be changed by Sohrab because I think it is Amir's way to be good again.

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    4. I don't think that there is anything to change about Sohrab, he is just a young boy, Amir has experienced a lot and it would be very tough for Sohrab to help Amir, because he is wasn't around for the incident and I don't think Amir wants to tell anybody about what he did wrong.

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    5. I think both characters will change each other, Sohrab will now have a better purpose in life and Amir will hopefully find peace with himself knowing that Hassan would love nothing more than to know Amir came back to rescue his son

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  18. Off of what Jay just said do you think Amir still would have gone to america if the alleyway scene did not occur? How would this affect his life?

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    1. Yes because not only was he escaping the scenes from his past but he was also escaping the poverty and war that was starting in Afghanistan.

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  19. I think the author symbolizes Amir's memories when he was there because he thinks of his past and all the memories he had when he used to live there.

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  20. Do you think Amir would have considered going back if he would have stood up for Hassan in the alleyway, or if it never happened at all?

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    1. I don't think it would've happened at all because if he did stand up for Hassan, I think it would've brought them closer in their friendship/relationship and Ali would've never been disappointed towards Amir for being a coward if he stood up for Hassan. Therefore, moving to America would most likely never would've happened and neither would their separation.

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    2. No because he is going back because of the guilt that is eating him. As mentioned earlier, they do not consider themselves as friends. I think that he would have been upset because it is someone that he grew up with, but would not have felt the need to go back.

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  21. The money under the mattress was good not bad.

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    1. I think it's used to show the contrast between the two times he stuffed money under a mattress. The first time was a bad turning point, and the second point can kind of represent his closure

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    2. I agree. I've never thought of it that way, but now that you say it brings it to light.

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  22. On page 232 , Farid accuses Amir that he was never a true Afghanistan because his condition was not as poor as most. Do you agree with Farid? Does it take more than being born and raised in Afghanistan to be a true Afghani?

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    1. I can't really say I even fully understand why he would say that because to me it doesn't even really make sense. I think yes it may take more than being born and raised, but I would think it would be more culture rather than money if that makes sense?

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    2. I think he acts Afghani...There is personality traits that make you who you are. My money doesnt make me an American. Or not having money doesn't make you a American.

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    3. I think Farid said he wasn't a true Afghan because he thinks Amir only lived in Afghan for a little while and only used American products. He was saying he wasn't a true Afghan because he always lived the "America life" even if he was living in Afghanistan.

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    4. I think that "being a true Afghan" is more of an opinion than it was a fact. Everyone had different definition of a true Afghan; for example Farid thinks it means to have experienced the horrors of Afghanistan and lived it since birth, but Baba thought it was to be strong. tough, and emotionless.

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  23. I think that sinking things to the bottom of the river is very symbolic for Amir cause it is like putting the past behind you. One of the things that Amir has always run from is his past.

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  24. Has Amir come to except his past?

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    1. I think that Amir has begun the process of accepting the past. Amir still has some issues with addressing events that took place in the past though.

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    2. I don't think he'll ever accept his past fully because of that growing guilt that lies within him, even until the present. But I think he's learned that it's time to face it and embrace his mistakes and trying to do a good deed to Hassan to make up for a small bit of not standing up for him in the alley way.

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    3. Amir returning to Afghanistan shows how much the country has been going downhill. As much as it has been going downhill because of the Taliban, Amir also couldn't see the extreme poverty due to living in a rich household with Baba. He remembers Afghanistan as a different place even though the poverty has been there for quite some time.

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  25. Do you think that Amir felt weird getting called a foreigner by Farids friend that insulted him?

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    1. I think after being told while he was driven that he was always practically a tourist he may not of been very offended.

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    2. I don't think he felt weird, I think he was more insulted than odd. But I do think Farid gave him a new perspective to look at in order to be called a true "Afghani."

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  26. What truly makes a person a native instead of a tourist?

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    1. I think a native is someone who was born and raised in a certain place and people have a specific respect for that.

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    2. I think it has to do with culture. I think that if you are part of the community and the culture than you are a native.

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    3. A native is someone who grew up with the culture, as a tourist is someone who only wants to experience the culture for a short period of time.

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  27. "But Farid's face had flushed red, his lips pulled back in a snarl. 'I'm killing him! You can't stop me! I'm killing him,' he sneered." (256) Why do you think Farid gets so angry? Do you think that Farid really would have killed him?

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    1. I think that Farid would kill him because he was doing a terrible thing selling children.

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    2. I think Farid has a deep admiration (I guess you could say) for kids, and loves each one deeply. He shows that by hugging and playing with the kids once he visited his brother. So, I think he got angry because he realllllyyyy cares for adolescents. Honestly, the way he acted I'm sure he would've truly killed him. But I'm not sure if he would've regretted it later on.

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    3. I think with how deep in rage he was, he would've killed him.

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  28. I think Amir hasnt forgiven himself but since he never got the chance to apologize to Hassan and make it right he realized he had to accept what happened.

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  30. "But I knew I had to leave as soon as possible. I was afraid I'd change my mind." (231) If giving up wasn't so easy as it is for Amir, how would things be different? What made giving up so easy for some people? What made it more difficult for others? I think that Amir is afraid of changing his mind because sometimes he has moments where he experiences the scene in the alley all over again and feels that guilt overwhelm him. When some people are overwhelmed with guilt they've buried for years they can change their mind so they won't have to remember it, Amir is probably just scared of feeling guilty again then he would change his mind.

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    1. I think that he has dealt with the guilt for so long that he thinks so lowly of himself that he knows he would give up if he didn't go.

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  31. I think amir is a tourist in his past beucase tourist visit places often and are always roaming and Amir is always visiting his past and raoming in it so I can see how he caould be a tourist in his past.

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  32. I also agree with what the inner circle said that Amir feels like a tourist at first but he also slowly eased back into Kabul. Amir said, "The ground was cool under my bare feet and suddenly, for the first time since we crossed the boarder, I felt like I was back." This quote for me summed up what the inner circle was talking about.

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  33. Another way that it was shown that Amir grew up not knowing the hardships in Afghanistan is that he ate all of the food that Farid gave him without thinking about it. We learn later that he and his family didn't have as much food as Amir usually had because the kids didn't get to eat that night.

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  34. It's not a good fishbowl until somebody kicks a chair.

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  35. "I am the man in the herringbone vest." Amir dreamed he killed Hassan. His guilt is still getting the best of him.

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    1. I agree with you. But I see how his guilt is still engulfing him in like a suffocated hug. What happened in the alley will haunt Amir forever, no matter what. It's most likely the biggest regret Amir will ever experience in his life and since he was really young, it makes his guilt taunt him 24/7.

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  36. "I feel like a tourist in my own country," (Chapter 19 pg.231)
    He grew up rich so he was kind of blocked from seeing the poor. He grew up being able to get anything so when he came back he saw the poor side of his country cause he doesn't have anything anymore. He isn't part of the rich life and now can see the poverty in the country. Why would he just see the richness? Did he ever see poverty? Did he think that it couldn't be better until he went to America?

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  37. On page 236, the author mentions that Maryan never made eye contact with Amir. Do you think it's because she's not allowed to, she doesn't trust him, or she's suspicious of him?

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  38. Do you think the story would be different if Amir's family wasn't wealthy?

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    1. I think the story would be very different. Amir wouldn't have thought of Hassan as a lesser person. Baba and Amir wouldn't have been so well known.

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    2. I think little things would have been different, but I think most of the events affecting him so much, had to do with the type of person Amir is, and that it doesn't necessarily have to do with his family's wealth. I don't think it would have changed Amir's response to what happened to Hassan, because that was the type of person Amir was.

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    3. Most likely, yes because if Amir's family was poor, I don't think they'd have enough money to "hire" Ali and Hassan as servants. Ali and Baba would probably separate later in their lives if Baba was not wealthy because both would have to go out in the world to try and collect money in order to set food on the table.

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  39. I think that Baba treated the Hazaras well the way he treated Ali and Hassan. So I think that Amir thought Hassan was lesser than him not because of his social class but because he was jealous that Baba favored Hasasn over him.

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    1. I agree, Amir is definitely the one to get very jealous. Usually this is how brothers act, though.

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    2. I agree with you, however I think if Amir stood up for himself or Hassan or others, as well as take care of other situations better that occurred, Baba would've favored him more because Amir would make Baba proud so he'd give him more attention

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  40. Amir was capable of recognizing the class system but he was able to ignore it because of his ability to have whatever he wanted.

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  41. Page (229) "Try a lemon"
    "What"
    "Lemon its good for sickness.

    Do you think that now Amir is used to getting really good care in the US and going back to Pakistan is taking a toll on his health or anything?

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    1. I don't think so. He has always has really horrible motion sickness. I think the lemon is to show the difference between life in the US and in Afghanistan but theres in no relation to his health.

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    2. I think that Pakistan will take some getting used to, but I don't think his health will be impacted seriously, especially given he grew up in a similar environment.

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  42. I think when Amir said things were sinking, he is putting everything behind him and is letting everything not bother him as much. I think he is learning to let go.

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    1. I agree, I also think that it could also mean that he is getting used to the way he feels and the guilt he has felt for years.

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  43. The quote, “I feel like a tourist in my own country.” shows that Amir is blind to the fact that he IS a tourist in his own country.

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  44. "Maybe I will help you find this boy." (Chapter 19 pg. 239)
    Why would Farid help Amir out? Why would he try and find Hassan's boy? What is it to him? Does he want or need something from Amir? Why does it matter to Farid?

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    1. I think it is very mysterious that Farid is so nice to Amir. I'd like to think that Farid is just a very nice guy, but I believe he might need something from him for all that he has done for him.

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  45. The quote, “I feel like a tourist in my own country.” shows that Amir is blind to the fact that he IS a tourist in his own country.

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  47. When Farid accused Amir for being "like everyone else" it relates to modern society because of how people are always looking at people and assuming that they're like this or that but sometimes they're not like the asummtions others made. Why did Amir let Farid judge him instead of explaining what he was planning? Why does Farid care so much about how Afghans return and sell whatever they had there? Why does he care if he knows they can't do anything with it from another country? Did Farid see a purpose as to why they should have kept what they had (land, houses, etc.)?

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    1. I think Amir let him judge him because, as he mentions later, he simply "did not ask him why he was there." Farid probably holds a lot of grudges, most from the Taliban, which probably influenced him to be more judgmental and rude towards people who shows they have a bit more wealth.

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  48. What does normal mean to you?

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    1. Is anyone really that normal? Or do we just assume what is normal?

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    2. We create what is "normal". Humans have determined what is normal and what is not.

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    3. I think that everyone try's to be normal because it is what everyone wants to be.

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    4. Is your question based off from the inner circles conversing? Because I'm not connected what normal has to do with the chapters .-.

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  49. I think Amir wouldn't say Hassan was his friend because of the influences at school and neighborhood kids. Amir was not in a bubble in the house his whole childhood.

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    1. I agree. I think that Amir and Hassan were friends but Amir wouldn't admit it because he was afraid of what people would think of him if he was friends with a Hazara.

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  50. On 231 when the driver said to Amir that. "You still think of this place as your country?" I wonder if this makes Amir think that he did the wrong thing by leaving and that he would have the chance of getting hurt and not letting go of his guilt but also loosing the respect of some of its inhabitants. He responded with "I think a part of me always will." and trying to prove this person he just met wrong about him, because he is still a native to Afghanistan, even on his way to Pakistan.

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  51. I think that Amir will always see and feel as more than others because that is how he was raised and its hard to break that way growing up becuase when your growing up you are effected greatly in your personality and how you feel of yourself over others he is at a cross road right now he has to chose which road he wants to go down and that is how its been for him throughout the whole book.

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  52. "We're hungry but we're not savages! He is a guest! What was I supposed to do?" He said in a strained voice.
    Why would he feed Amir before his family? Why would he invite Amir knowing that his family was starving? Why was he getting mad at his wife when he got rid of food they could have eaten? I think they are all about respect. It was the respectful thing to do to let the guest eat before the family. Its all about where they come from I think.

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  53. I almost feel like Amir's feelings may be a relation to the feelings of a soldier.

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  54. I forgave Amir a long time ago, while Baba was still alive.

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  55. If the reader can forgive Amir does that mean that Amir can forgive himself?

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  56. Amir is trying to backtrack and undo what he did, although it's not working in his favor.

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